Session 3-1: Beware of Dog!

M. D. Anderson Cancer Center
Date: March 11, 2008
Duration: 0 / 36:39

Keith McDowell, M.D., Vice Chancellor for Research and Technology Transfer, The University of Texas System

Narrator:

Good afternoon everybody. It's my pleasure to open session number three of our course ideas on fire.  What we plan today is to really look at the intellectual property issues, issues relating to technology transfer so that everybody of you knows what to do when you have an idea.  How do you go from an idea to tell your university, in this case University of Texas, that you have an idea and what do you do with it how do you disclose it?  What do they do with your disclosure?  How do they work it?  And then once we got a little handle on that what do we do when we commercialize?  This is license, where to start up, these issues. Once we go through all that the last speaker will talk about conflict of interest issues because we faculty, we have some problems when we wanna start up companies and there are some rules that we have to follow to be good citizens within the institution and so the last the speaker will talk about these things what is allowed, what it is not allowed?  And again, you know, you're an entrepreneur you are thinking outside the box.  There is still stuff you can do outside the box that is still perfectly legal and within the conflict of interest rules.  So, we're gonna try to tell you what that all is, okay.

So our first speaker is a pleasure to announce to me we have here Dr. Keith McDowell. He is the Vice-Chancellor for Research and Technology Transfer at The University of Texas System and we remember this is an office that has a budget of a little bit more than $2 billion and you correct me if it is $3 or $4 billion in the meantime as I understand it is growing by the day.  So they do both sides.  They do the whole funding grants coming in all 15 campuses of the UT system and as well trying to streamline the processes in the technology transfer area.  And they just announced as you know from the two sessions ago with Cathy Swain who is the assistant Vice-Chancellor.  She announced the stiff fund, the technician ignition fund and I think we'll hear a little bit more today.  So they don't just do the talk.  They walk the walk and they make sure that there is some money behind it because money talks, we know that, right.

So Dr. Keith McDowell came.  He was chair of chemistry and biochemistry at UT Arlington and after that he was kinda drawn away to the deep south Alabama and started a tech transfer office over there and was in charge of research.  In the meantime he was somewhere dean of a graduate school I saw.  So he did, he hit all these points, you know, that you wanna hit with the target.  And then I think just about six months ago he got recruited back into the UT system to become the vice-chancellor for research and tech transfer. So, it is my pleasure to introduce to you Dr. Keith McDowell.

[ Applause ]

Dr. Keith McDowell:

Well, thank you.  It is really a pleasure to be here in particular to be back in front of an audience and in some sense students.  It's been quite sometimes since I've actually been in a classroom.  I've been on the dark side, you know, I've seen your administrators since about 2000 and so I have not much opportunity to do things like this.  So it is a real pleasure for me to be back here in to a classroom and to be with you folks today.

You are probably wondering about the title to my presentation today "Beware of Dog."  You're gonna find as I talk.  I'm gonna try to intersperse my comments today with perhaps some stories and a little bit of humor because my view in terms of doing this thing you have to have a certain amount of humor and fun with life because if you don't why do this?  So, and then so you are asking, okay why beware of dog and what really is that got to do with talking about discovery to commercialization and intellectual property?  Well, I picked that particular image and in fact I thought about it for a week or so when they asked me to do this, talk about because sometimes the title to the talk actually can be very interesting and tell you a lot about what it is you are going to say.  So, I actually googled "Beware of Dog" got 198,000 hits on that believe it or not.  And in particular and it gave me just exactly what I wanted. Particularly the next slide will show you what would you get when you do this "Beware of Dog?"  You get, you know, the whole image of the sign and the jokes and what have you in particular the dog on the left, you know, is your policeman.  The dog that growls at you in your yard and all that then here on the right you have the little yipper, you know, it isn't gonna do much to you.

So the message I wanna send and leave you with if you walk out of here with nothing else from me in my perspective at looking at things is beware of dog.  What I mean by that in particular in discovery to commercialization of intellectual property is all the images that come to you with beware of dog. It can be I fear is the most, boy this is really tough, you know, how do I do this to, well this isn't so hard or whatever.  You know, it is in the eye of the beholder a little bit about what this whole operation is.  You still have to learn.  You have to know things about it.  But if you keep the image of the little sign on this that says, "Beware of Dog" and all the kind of images that can go with that I think that will help you understand at least some of my comments today.

So the big question is, "Why me?  Why am I standing up here?" Other than the fact that I am the vice-chancellor for research and technology transfer, that doesn't really, you know, qualify me for much of anything to talk about commercialization.  Well, I've been a faculty member, PI on lots of grass and got publications.  As mentioned I've been an administrator at just about every level I think you can be in an institution I've tried to get away from the administration a couple of times they always drag me back.  I also had a very unique experience that a lot of people with university and things don't have. I spent 10 years at Los Alamos national laboratory at mid level management.  So I had an opportunity to see a different perspective from discovery to commercialization. There is not so much discovery to commercialization as there's discovery to deployment. So I had the chance to see that. I've been a vice president for research at two different universities, UT Arlington and the University of Alabama, and so I had a, I've had some different perspectives on that and I hope to say a few things about that today.  In fact, I've also had the opportunity during my career to help get started two different incubators, one at UT Arlington and one at Alabama.  So some experiences with that, that I'm not gonna talk about it today but I'll certainly entertain questions about it if you want to.

Another thing that we did at Alabama that I'm gonna say a little bit about later on has to do with innovation.  In other words, after you've made your discoveries and you've done your, you know, you're ready to move on and send it out on the street or whatever.  What do we do with that intellectual property that's sitting there because a lot of times it is very ill-formed and there's lots that can be done at the innovation level with that and do we form as universities a center to do that?  Do we hire people to take where you've taken it and then to take it further to do the development side of the issue.  And of course my answer to that is in the 21st century yes because we did that at Alabama with this AIM center.  Just a couple of comments too, let me paraphrase these last two by saying that as I did at the beginning a few minutes ago that I don't consider myself a technology transfer professional.  I am a person that's been, you know, a scientist.  In fact, I told people I spend a lot of time studying infinity and most of my 70 papers probably people would accuse me of studying infinity too much, you know, and not of that I can assure you is commercialized well any of the works that I had an opportunity to do.  So I don't consider myself a professional technology transfer person.  To somebody that's gotten into this but in any case in terms of managing teams I thought I would just mention to you that two things that have happened basically at Alabama, my experiences there a year or so ago with the BASF corporation.  We did some deal structuring and the team and I do credit the team with this suggest they happen to report to me.  They won the LES Societies Deal of the Year Award.  And I got to see, you know, what goes in to making a deal that can be the deal of the year. That particular deal took about a year to negotiate, very interesting process in doing that.

I also had the experience at the University of Alabama being part of and working the deal for a start up company. I'm gonna keep their name private here because they never like for you to tell how much, you know, monies and what went on with it.  It was roughly a $50 million deal. Now, I know a lot of this and I'm gonna get to this in a little bit.  You are going to experience the, you know, the time issue.  How long does it take to do anything?  Well, I'd probably win the award for the slowest deal time on this planet and this particular deal hurt because it took three years to negotiate this deal.  But in actual fact, everyone associated with the deal was perfectly happy because it took three years to make it go. There was no, you know, nobody had any problems with the fact that it took three years.  So, sometimes when I hear people in congress, you know, or people talking to congress about how slow universities are and all this, you know, sometimes the deal structure just takes three years.

So that is what I made and let me see if I can blow a few of through a few things here, to give you some feeling for why we might be in this position.  A lot of times again speaking from the system level I get asked the question, why commercialization and the more the regions and wherever it is?  And now, why are we doing this?  I thought I would put it in this one slide this came from the World Bank and has something of the reasons why we do this and you can immediately see the blue car versus the yellow car.  We see that China. Their GDP is expected and this is World Bank projections in 2012 to surpass that of the United States.  And so that causes a lot of concern by the politicians.  Overlaid with that is again the great stuff that researchers do and I have to mention this book the Singularity is Near by Ray Kurzweil if you haven't read it.  Yeah, it's an interesting book.

I certainly wouldn't recommend it if you try to read it and it will absolutely put you to sleep.  It's one of the most boring book I've ever read but profound at the same time if any of you try to read this book.  And I bring this up just to mention the discovery and the things and where we're headed.  Kurzweil has predicted something called the singularity.  In essence what he is talking about is nanoborg or what, you know were all gonna be turned into nanoborg. I actually have my computer chips inserted into each of my ears because I am slightly hearing impaired. You know, eventually they're gonna stick 'em inside of me and I am probably gonna--and these are wireless. Now, they're gonna be wireless inside of my head or whatever.  We are going to become the nanoborg whether we like it or not.  Not only that we're gonna have, you know, chips and so forth attached to our brains so we've got all kinds of infinite storage capacity or whatever and then there's gonna come the day when one of these computers because of the complexity of the circuits as we build 3D chips and so forth is going to become center.  And what are we gonna do when that happens, now you got the cylons for those of you that like to watch Battlestar Galactica.

And so, you know, there's all these great stuff going on and you in particular in the life science side of it I suppose--I still happen to be a chemical physicist myself.  We're gonna be right at the forefront of all these things that are going along and what we have to do with that.  So, I say that then to get us to discovery.  Now, you've had your discoveries.  Let met get a little bit more pragmatic.  Now, what I wanna do is I say for the next few slides is just talk to you from the perspective of a person who sat at high altitude and looked down on these things and give you a little bit of my own view of what goes on.  So the issue with discovery is first thing, do I disclose?  And as I indicated to you an awful a lot of stuff that comes through really doesn't need to be disclosed.  It's you know, studying infinity as the kind of things that I do.  A lot of things do need to be disclosed.  Well, you know, discoveries and ideas are not necessarily gonna turn on to some kind of intellectual property by itself.  Somebody has to make a decision about that.

So the question for you is how do I know and I know there is gonna be some probably or other speakers are gonna talk about this but there is a point I wanted to make when I put this slide in. You need to talk to your professionals in your tech transfer office immediately as soon as you can. Don't wait any time at all.  Go in and talk to them because one message I wanna get across today is your tech transfer folks or your commercialization folks are professionals. They know how to do this really well. Talk to your colleagues.  Also don't forget, believe it or not that a lot of grants and contracts that you have. You have a federal obligation to report it.  In fact, an awful lot of faculty don't realize that.  For example, in the office of Naval Research I think it's 60 days from the moment you have you're "aha" moment, you're suppose to report it to the ONR.  Now, how many people actually do that?  Of course, it is almost no one.  So, ONR did a little study about that a few years ago and they were not happy to find out that faculty were not reporting their "aha" moments to them.  So, you do you have federal obligations.

Another point I wanna make is that you may not be recognized but across the entire University of Texas System we have almost a hundred people doing technology transfer of one sort or another.  It's actually more than a hundred if you count people like myself.  So we are a very substantial operation in the UT system in terms of technology transfer.  What about the invention disclosure?  I know you're gonna hear some more about that today but I've got to get my two cents when after listening to these things for six or seven years.  And my storyline on this is this what I'd say, get the storyline up front in the first 25 words or less if you possibly can because most of the people sitting on your invention disclosure committee meeting are not gonna understand anything at all about the technology or the science or whatever it is you are talking about.  They are gonna tuned it out very quickly because in a lot of times while the science is absolutely essential and you are great at explaining it to people that is not the main message.

Also I talked to people, I spent a lot of time in Washington over the years talking to congress and to congressmen and so forth and I can tell you when you wanna do something to them we call it the elevator speech.  You know, you have to do it in about two minutes.  You walk in, you say, "I want the congressman".  You say "Hello and how's everything back in Texas" or whatever and then two minutes later you better have done whatever is you gonna do business with them, are you finished?  That's how quick it is.  And so how do you that?  People ask me that.  Well, I say it is tag line, tag line, tag line or punch line whatever it is and I've listed a few here kind of expressions you can use.  Like GNP in a box, Marks in, smart bay, whatever it is.  If save the whales, if you got a tag line or something that you can put together that will help everybody remember what it is you are trying to sell to them that is great.  I mean you can't walk in and say well, gee, you know, I am looking at hyperfine resonance in the vanadium oxide compounds and that's really gonna be very important to the world.  I can assure you nobody is gonna be listening to you after you get to vanadium oxide or something like that.  So tag lines are important.  That is just my view on that.

Another point that I wanna talk about just for a minute that can get confusing and ask the question I always enjoy asking this question.  What is intellectual property?  So, again having some fun I asked some legal people and you know, I heard the Charlie Brown nye-nye-nye-nye and then they got to this intangible rights treated as property manifested by a patent as then I tuned out again after that.  So for the legal side of the house it is not your widget or whatever, it is the patents, it is the copyright, that is what they think of when they think of intellectual property.  You - when you think of it and why, what I tend to think of it.  I have to think in two different ways about this.  So, I think about the widget, you know, my watch or whatever.  That is the intellectual property.  You have to pay attention to which sphere you are in when you are talking about intellectual property and what people mean by intellectual property.  Who owns it?  Well, of course here in the UT system the regents own it that.  There are some exclusions around.  For example we all know the scholarly works are excluded.  The books that you write and so forth unless the university or whatever commissions you to do it.

Depending on the institution that you're at.   You can also maybe do intellectual property and own it if you do it in your garage.  It depends on the institution.  There is no believe it or not system view towards that.  We have some regents rules, they are very broad.  They can depend on, depending on the institution, the scope of your work.  Usually scope of work means you can't do it in your garage if it is you know, if your s chemistry faculty remember when you did chemistry in your garage that scope of work.  Some institutions use job description that has to be specifically in your job description, so there is all kind of legalese about that. You need to know what the situation is wherever it is you work as to who owns the intellectual property because this can be really big.  And I can tell you the courts generally are not gonna favor the faculty member, unless it is really clear that they own it.  The courts are almost always going to this side for and the fact that you, the company, you know, the notion is that the company owns it.

So those issues.  Another thing that comes up is what I call a validation of the invention.  That gets to the notion of proof of concept, production of practice, prototype.  Again, there's lots of buzz words that go around.  And this gets to a point that I mentioned a minute ago that batteries not included.  What I mean by that is again sometimes you really do have to innovate on top of whatever it is that you're doing and maybe your institution needs to have an innovation center to do that.  I was mentioning one at lunch just a little while ago, it happened at the University of Alabama.  We have something we just call ionic liquids, these are basically organic ions that get together and form a liquid.  And there is probably a thousand ionic liquids now and you know, once you've thought up the various ionic liquids, the trick is that does in essence an enabling technology.  Now, what do you do with it?  It turns out that there is some ionic liquids that will dissolve cellulose and will dissolve biomass.  That is really important to be able to dissolve cellulose for those of you that pay attention to the biomass argument.  So, if you can do that but also hmm well, gee.  I can dissolve cellulose but now I can make cellulose with plastics and I kind do all kinds of things.  So, if you own the core technology ionic liquids, now you have an innovation center that's sitting there thinking about all the possible kinds of tricks you can do with an ionic liquid and there's a lot once you start thinking about that.  We were very lucky at the University of Alabama that we had a particular core technology that worked really well for us to create this innovation center to help people working on that.

My grant will not pay for this that is a typical comment that I hear from faculty and it is true.  Most of your grants are not going to pay for proof of concept or innovative research or something like that on top of it.  So, we've created, I'm just briefly gonna mentioned it here and I'll come back to it a little later, we've created something called the Texas Ignition Fund at UT system.  These $50,000 grants and they are proof of concept kinds of grants.  We've just had the first round come in about 16 proposals they came in within two weeks and we will soon be awarding those. I'm not gonna say much more about that about the Texas Ignition Fund except they are not intended to be research grants.  So they really are intended to be some money that we can put in really early to make things happen.  We want that to happen again.  We got to have money in the game to make it go.

Another thing that happens along here is what is called sometimes devaluation of intellectual property and there are lots of ways of doing that.  You know, you can have your market studies, you can have students do it and sometimes they can get expensive to do that.  You can have external experts come in and try to tell you how to do it.  Sometimes and I've done this at various universities.  We've had venture capital people or entrepreneurs or folks like under a non-disclosure agreement to sit on their invention disclosure committee 'cause they're really good at helping you to make those kinds of decisions about valuation.

One point I really wanna make in getting across on the valuation of IP to all of you today and that's to manage your expectations about what you're gonna get out of it. If there is any simple message on evaluation of IP is just that one because everybody comes into thinking they got the latest and greatest mouse strap or whatever it is and they can't possibly be that there is no market for this.  I mean it's the most wonderful idea in the world.  But, you know, they didn't get to talk to the market experts because it maybe that you're just gonna go out and compete in the big market and the people are gonna have to change their equip meter or whatever it is; it is gonna be so much cost to change to what did you do.  There are so many reasons why that great idea which is a great idea and a new invention is just not gonna make commercially viable.  So you need to manage their expectations.  Remember, it's only worth when somebody is gonna pay for it.  It is not worth what you think it's worth.

Another thing I usually try to bring up to faculty on this one, I've run in so many issues whereas they often don't understand the revenue of distribution policy of the institutions.  Again, while there are regions rules about this, each of the institutions in University of Texas System has a different way that they do their revenue distribution policy.  So when you are doing the evaluation of your IP, make sure you understand what those are.  Now, we get to protecting the IP in the "Beware of Dog" of business.  Actually I only made it one transparency or slide for you today.  And there are lots of different methods and I've listed them for you.  Again, protecting and I feel you really well I can involve some exercises in doing things and certainly patents can ultimately be a whole lot more work in the faculty usually things they are.  Now, everybody the common complaint is part of this as I mentioned disclosure for many of you to have a short form or long form and I've had a faculty come and say, Oh gosh so long and I want the short form two pages allowed and that's it.  That's great but the minute you get to do patent, you're gonna be talking with some patent lawyers, some boutique patent lawyers or whoever it is, not a guarantee.  You don't have to do the work to do all that stuff from the patent because the people in the invention disclosure committee have no idea how to explain it as well as you can do it.  So ultimately, particularly on patents, you're gonna have to do a certain amount of work with that.  An issue that has always comes out but I'm not gonna go into detail on it because the a little bit on how each tech transfer office handles it but lot, in fact, come in who've never done it before usually have this concern about publication.  And to be honest then, in my six and seven years of doing this, I'm talking about a lot of professionals; I've never seen the publication issue to be a real problem.  If you got any kind of tech transfer office that knows how to work with this and you show up on day 1 with your invention, with your discovery that you wanna talk about, the publication issue should not be an issue whatsoever for you.  Now we can start getting to interesting part thing here and I'm gonna see if I can speed up a little bit here.  You get, now you know, we've got to protect and so forth. We gonna do tech transfer.  And typically what that means now is that it means license versus start-up and so I've put down a number of my favorite little expressions here that I hear from people on this.  I don't have time for this.  I don't make cash.  You know, I've got 16 grants and you know, 30 graduate students at post stocks and blah, blah, blah and that's true, they don't.  So that you know, that's why you need to be talking about your tech transfer.  If you want to be an entrepreneur, hopefully, you are gonna have time for that.  I'll take cash up front.  That usually what happens but this time if they've gotten through all the patent and they've worked with the lawyers, you know, oh men, I won't cash up front.  The BASF deal, the faculty members so said, with that, I am sure he would mind telling the story.  He walked in and said, "You know, I am the world's greatest negotiator."  I said, "No, you are the world's greatest salesman, maybe you're a terrible negotiator 'cause would he wanna do?  He was willing to walk in the BASF that this is the Deal of the Year award.  And asked for half million dollars cash on the barrel he had not set.  Well, when we finally settled that deal, that's probably gonna be worth about maybe you know, some of my friends have made a million dollars a year to this faculty member in his own pocket.  Plus we got a sponsored research agreement for about 300, 400, 000 dollars a year for this person.  So he is gonna be driving his Lamborghini around, you know, his past portion of the public forced thing.  He didn't force.  He's gonna be driving something else with that kind of money.  So, you know, sometimes cash upfront is the easy way out.  Another game that sometimes I've heard also the equity, boy, I love paper.  I mean if you give me the equity I won't, you know, paper for this, hold this paper because I know this is gonna multiply a zillion times and I'm gonna be enormously rich.  Well, most of us know that a paper is just paper if you deal with paper, paper isn't money folks.  So, you need to think twice of, you know, whatever it is.  There is another one that happened to be not too long ago but the nice person for making you rich said, you know, they come in to me with this and I have a faculty member about a year ago that had one of these sort of instances and just, I mean, it is a New York folks involved with this particular one and they had absolutely convinced this faculty member that you know, you just do it my way and what we promise you will be very rich.  I knew they're gonna have some problems particularly like one story, you know; sometimes you get the punch line exactly right on the first instance.  We've had about some meetings and the next day they come in, they got the New York lawyer in about seven or eight more people and they surround me on this table and then lawyer sitting there and he looks me and says, "I'm really sorry that we got you outnumbered and surrounded like this."  So, I looked at him and I sort of doing this and I stopped and I looked on and I said, "Not yet." And the guy just, I mean, did his whole case after that because you know what because he thought he is gonna somehow, you know, forgotten Alabama.  He is gonna make this thing go.  Ultimately, that faculty member came back and worked with us and then, you know the hatch of it because this makes you rich folks.  One that makes you rich.  They were just gonna take his money, you know, take his intellectual property and get away with very small potatoes.  So you've gotta watch out for that.  Then there's the other side of the house, you know, I don't need your help.  I'm in charge.  I'm the world's greatest entrepreneur, you know, and sometimes that's true.  And hopefully the tech transfer office and the people have worked together enough for the people to see that indeed you are.  I mean if that's the case what, you know, go for it.  Most of the time that's not the case.  You really do need help.  Now, you can tell when you're gonna, when you're starting to get some of these pushbacks from your tech transfer always on the list.  I heard I just gave you few of the acronyms that go with it.  So, if they are pushing back, here is what you are gonna here, "Well, you know, there are a lot of research and here is the nerve effect sounds like pre-evaluation of IP." Don't forget the IRS is gonna get you with that one.  That brown eyed tip blah, blah, blah.  I mean there is about 30 or 40 of these little catch prizes, you know, that they really like to do with faculty and you maybe get familiar with some of those and make sure that you do understand when that person is using as various prices when you want to know what it is that they are talking about.  Let me switch a little bit to commercialization issues and I'll try to finish up fairly quickly with some of these.  This is more moving a little bit broader skill than just individuals and people trying to become an entrepreneur.  As you know, there are lots of goings on watching about the BiDole and testimony about whether or not BiDole as you get rid of it and so forth and I don't think so.  I mean there are some things around the edges that need to be downloaded by BiDole and most people have taken the view of a reporter from the Department of Higher Education that calls that a stable marriage with a question mark and those of you that are married and they really don't know what a stable marriage means.  I think that's really what we've got with BiDole universities.  These are stable marriage and all the things that that implies.  Another commercialization issue, business decisions versus lawyering.  Lawyers love the red line.  I mean they got Microsoft Word and we can email and we can red line forever.  It's just amazing to me how many times you can get a red line.  That will slow things down.  So, everybody whether it is you, it is the entrepreneur, or the tech transfer officer there, comes a timer once in a while, we have to make the business decision.  One of the things we did with that 50 million-dollar deal it was, it got stuck in lawyering.  So what do we do?  We put our lawyers on a plane from Birmingham, Alabama flew into Washington and made them sit in a room with the business folks sitting in another room breaking coffee and having a good time.  All lawyers are doing a Marka and said, you know, we're not gonna stop until you finish with this.  Because we know what the business decisions are, so you the legal thing figure it out.  It took them about a day and a half and it costs the money but like I say a 50-million dollar company cannot follow that.  Deal making.  I could give an entire talk on deal making.  Those who work for me know overtime in watching this.  My view of this whole business in commercialization is let's make a deal.  I mean if you are not willing to try to get into deal making space and make a deal, you know, for example, I had situations when I stepped into a couple of these jobs where, you know, they had this sheet that said, "Well, gee if we do this and so it has to be 3 percent royalty or more or not less."  You know, 2.9 not gonna work.  Well, that's not a very good deal and now it gets me to the next point which I think is the single problem that goes on all these things and I call it negotiation skills.  And this here I am beating up a little bit not only on the tech transfer offices but on the venture capital as everybody else.  And like that lawyer from New York who came in and try to play his tricks with me.  I mean you can be, you can now everything there is, you know, tech transfer.  BiDole, you can put the chapter and verse. You can know everything about deal structuring but if you don't have any negotiations and negotiate the deal.  Now what I have found so many times in these things is that people just lack negotiation, basic fundamental negotiation skills and they need to take one on one on how to do this.  So this is something that I take.  Stop passing and start fixing.  Again this is a lot of goings on.  It occurs here in the state.  It occurs in Washington.  It occurs, you know, some of our large corporate Americas as we don't know how to do this.  We're off-shoring and all these sorts of things.  A lot of this is actually and dull stories and really it is like self fulfilling prophecy because I've asked a lot of times, "Can you please quote to me the deal where you had this problem?"  And of course they can't.  You know, well I heard it at the water cooler.  And so and you track around.  You can never find out what it was that was the problem, so you can go fix it.  So we need to deal with that issue.  Another issue that comes up is what I call the spectrum of deal space and sectors in tech transfer because again sometimes if you are, particularly this happens with the external venture capital, external entrepreneur folks who come to the University of Texas system transfer offices and I say, "Well, you know, whatever their monitor is.  What they forget is they are just doing one sector usually, one area and the university has to deal with the entire spectrum of the space of deal making in industry on every single day.  And that's not easy to do.  Deals are situational.  They are people dependent.  I'm running a little low on time here so I won't get you on some of my stories about the gamesmanship.  You can play with making deals but you gonna have a lot of fun with that.  I think another thing as happening a little bit right now is we have 2 million dollars tracing to a few quality deals.  There is a quite a lot of money out there.  I mean, money is not then an object that I've seen in the last six or seven years. You can find the money if you got the quality deal to go with.  I do not find that would be a problem.  All through with R and D, you know, again that's the threat of universities.  If you would just give us everything you own, all your intellectual property, we'll give you this wonderful sponsored research very much for your faculty.  It might be 50,000 dollars a year or 100,000 dollars or something with a number like that and they blame and they go to congress and say, is this intellectual property that's the issue.  Well, I don't believe that for a minute.  I mean the reason why companies are off-shoring is labor costs in intellectual property and in fact when I sit down with them again and ask for the specifics of it, they often have a very difficult time coming up on specific.  I've already mentioned basics science versus innovation a little bit.  I think there is a real debate that we need to have about universities as Eco Deve [phonetic] engines economic development.  I didn't know about the Eco Deve then I got to Texas and now I've learned all about Eco Deve so you can put that in your vocabulary now.  That's the real issue that we gotta deal with but you've heard my opinion.  I think in the 21st century, universities do have the tech transfer and we have to figure out how to do in some measure certain pieces of commercialization apart.  If you're really interested in some of the issues, there is a document called nine points to consider in licensing and University Technology came out a year or so ago.  If you'll take that and Google that you can find that is an interesting document to read.  There are lots of things going on in Washington again from high altitude or something called the university industry demonstration partnership where we got the people together.  They meet regularly in Washington to talk about all these issues BiDole, you know, outsourcing all these kind of things I've been mentioning on these two slides.  Here's that group that is doing that.  You might Google them again and get some of their information.  I do wanna just finish up with a couple of slides on you know, with the Texas system.  Just to remind you that we are a very large operation and we do lots of deals everyday.  Again, this is my sector business and my sector argument.  Again, the last five, in a five-year time frame we have almost three thousand invention disclosures, 553 patents, lots of licenses, 151 million dollars in gross IP revenues, 66 start-up companies.  So The University of Texas system as a system is doing, you know, we're doing deals constantly all the time.  I've mentioned the Ignite Texas initiative there with the Texas Edition Fund and we got these ideas on fire program.  We've also got a number of other things I know Kathy talked about this so I won't spend any real time with that.  In the past, we have done the showcases.  We did one in 2007.  I was talking about the possibility of doing others.  We're also getting some of our smaller institutions to work together to have joint technology transfer offices and try to again to deal with the issue of sector space on how expertise throughout the entire University of Texas system.  They can deal of whatever sector you happened to be in.  We also have a group, you may not know about, called the University of Texas Technology Management Council.  They have something called special interest groups or SIGS and we have three of them and one of them is new ventures and start ups.  They have a phone conference call every month talking about all the issues involved with deal structuring and so forth.  Also, you've met Cathy Swain, my assistant vice-chancellor, we've actually and you know, we have a person in my office that works full time just on commercialization.  I don't tech transfer but with commercialization side.  I wanted to end up since I am here in Huston and you know, Rice is just down the road with Richard Smolley, I started talking about discoveries you know, in the computer center so that's gonna become essential one of these days and all this I really borrow this from Rich Smolley, unfortunately, passed away about a year ago and Smolley challenged all of us.  He wrote down what he thought were the 10 most important things that we needed to be working on in the 21st century.  Of course, he liked energy first and always told you to send the money to him, water and food.  Now, you may not realize this but the engineers' society, US Engineering Society, National Academy of Engineers recently did a study and they wrote down, I think I don't remember the exact number because it was about 20 areas to do research in.  These are the most critical issues for the 21st century.  And then they put it out on the web, you get to vote, you know, which one you like and so what are the top vote-getters.  The first two top vote-getters were energy and the third one was water.  And a little bit for the down was food.  So Smolley had it all figured out a couple of years ago.  So, you know, whatever it is you do with your inventions and disclosures, if you want to plot a play in the world of the 21st century, is simply as this list is.  These are the things you should be working on in trying to create inventions and discoveries that will help us in these areas.  So with that, I believe that is my last one and I'm gonna stop.  Thank you.

[ Applause ]